I really enjoyed the article. It seemed clear and truly expressed some of our "over the years" concerns with QuarkXPress. The other "user replies" certainly raise some issues and affirm the desktop communities "trails and tribulations."
I have been using Quark since 1990-91 and have mostly enjoyed its strengths. I certainly have had my share of frustrations and difficulties with the program, both in house and on a consulting basis with other design / print shops.
I upgraded my computer platform to a dual G-4 1.25ghz MacIntosh about 6 months ago mainly for video and DVD authoring capabilities. OSX 10.2.x was a stretch at first, but what a joy now.
The point here is, I have continued to run QuarkXPress 4.1 even having to use Classic Mode , certaily not wanting to upgrade until the program was OSX savy. OSX runs so well, it was frustrating to continue with the old app.
Two weeks ago (what timing!) I made the decision to purchase and start a possible change over to InDesign. The program seemed strong, imported PC Pagemaker 6.5 and 7.0 files seamlessly. Opened and translated any Quark document I had in the same positive manner ... Things were looking good. I simply couldn't wait any longer to continue with my Classic Quark.
I'm not sure which program will win out in the long run. My printer / service bureau is not experiencing any wonderful events with InDesign. They are having more problems than not. Quark is solid and strong in that environment.
I will be very cautious in doing anything big projects with InDesign before my printer has a better report. However in my particular environment, I still need to translate PC Pagemaker and Quark files from time to time. InDesign wins hands down as Pagemaker continues to die out.
Submitted by artist_david on Wed, 06/25/2003 - 05:38.
I upgraded to 5 beacuse it was the cheapest path to 6...FREE! I haven't used 5 at all because I'm unwilling to invest in critical 3rd party extensions when I'll need to buy them aagin for 6. The functionality that is offered by Extensis QXTools and QX Effects is critical to the way I do business, eliminating the need to flip back and forth between Quark and Photoshop. I've asked Extensis what their plans are for 6 and got a very vague answer. The new Panther OS will eliminate the need for Suitcase, but Extensis (and others like Markztools) has been a godsend for Quark users. Having used Quark since version 1, I still believe Quark always ships half an app. To get everything you need you have to rely on 3rd party extensions.
Quark's long-standing attitude toward its customers does not deserve continued business. Here are just two of my many stories:
1) I wanted to "upgrade" to a new version of XPress. But I had always owned Passport. (For those of you who don't know, that is the version of XPress that also handles foreign languages. A much more expensive program. By the way, those capabilities are included in the basic InDesign version.) They wouldn't "upgrade." They wanted me to buy a full version of XPress. That finally did it for me.
2) And here is the whole picture in a nutshell (in my opinion). I once called Quark and asked to speak to someone about the then-forthcoming new version. I asked that person: "Will it have hanging punctuation?" The reply I got was: "What is hanging punctuation?"
Submitted by metritype on Tue, 06/24/2003 - 07:14.
Ebrahimi has to be one of those who is getting nearly $90,000 in income tax relief this year. Yeah, he "invested" it. His tax refund alone will probably pay for the entire Indian programming staff for a year.
In Denver, it would have only paid for three technicians. Much better to support the Indian economy than the American economy.
Joke du jour: Have you heard that Quark supplied job retraining for all their laid off engineers? They lined them up outside HR, and while they waited for their exit interviews, they taught them how to say, "Do you want fries with that?"
Submitted by kimsayers on Tue, 06/17/2003 - 05:48.
Runs *only* on a G4. I'm really getting tired of this treadmill of hardware upgrades. My G3/400 works perfectly fast and Quark 4.1 suits me fine thank you. Between OS X hassles (printing, font management, performance issues) and now a $300 software upgade that will need a $1,500 hardware upgrade? No thanks! I'll be fine for another two years with OS 9 and QXP 4.1.
I agree with this article. There's nothing really new here, concerning the whole gamut of the way Quark (the company and the software) works. I think that 6 will be a heck of a release, considering that a majority of shops still use Quark, and want something familiar to upgrade with. InDesign is a fine program, I use it all the time, but it still not my first choice. If I need to bang something out, I fire up Quark. I've got 13 years of experience with it. The real Adobe cheerleaders out there can't wait until everybody "sees the light", but it will take time. If the market finds that it's a superior product, it will be adopted. It may take some time, and for businesses with a heavy investment in the Quark Publishing System it may never happen. But that's the reality of the free-market system. Besides, I think there needs to be a healthy competition between companies, it keeps them innovating and benefits us the end users.
Submitted by geozinger on Tue, 06/17/2003 - 03:30.
Quark lost me as a supporter/customer when they issued that worthless upgrade, version 5. The new features (tables and html conversion) were so badly implemented they are virtually useless. Coupled with the programs inability to create a decent PDF, I still feel I was robbed. Quark should give everyone who purchased version 5 a free upgrade. Of course I don't expect that to happen.
I switched to InDesign just after taking a spin on their demo....(I have used Xpress since the start, never thought I would change -- guess I was wrong -- dont get me wrong Xpress is good but InDesign is better) -- I have put down programs like Illustrator, saying Freehand is better --- well I only said that because I had never tried Illustrator -- Now, I am a Illustrator user (Love it) -- Designers trust me there are a lot of hidden features in InDesign....that are awsome.
Xpress - only available in 10.2.x, high price and upgrade price, no thank you --- support you users dont gouge them.
Frankly, I no longer give a damn if Quark and Apple kiss and make up. I will not be buying any upgrades from Quark. They called me a couple years ago trying to get me to upgrade and I told them then what I will say now.
When Quark moved all of their programming and support to India, they lost me as a customer. I don't need an upgrade so bad that I will do anything to further support Farhad Ebrahimi's greed.
For years, he has proclaimed how wonderful America is. Why then did he move over 500 jobs to India, throwing the Americans who made him a wealthy man out of work? Why did he incorporate offshore so he could brag about evading American taxes?
When Tim Gill left Quark, the company lost its conscience, its soul, its ethics and its credibility. If you want to support Fred Ebrahimi's money-grubbing greedy anti-American arrogance, go ahead, buy QuarkXPress 6.0.
Submitted by kimsayers on Tue, 06/17/2003 - 05:40.
It's Tuesday morning at 7 am of the week that Quark Inc. spokespeople insisted that the product would be shipping.
They may be shipping little boxes all around the world, but no matter where I clicked on their Web site, they ain't selling.
If you follow their links to purchase Quark 6, you come to a page for Quark 5 orders. Yes, these Quark 5 orders have free upgrades to 6, but there ain't no "Buy Quark 6" area at all.
Whatever the real reason, Quark Inc. is a little behind the schedule they outlined last week.
Submitted by SandeeCohen99 on Mon, 06/16/2003 - 23:48.
It's hard to keep QuarkXPress
I really enjoyed the article. It seemed clear and truly expressed some of our "over the years" concerns with QuarkXPress. The other "user replies" certainly raise some issues and affirm the desktop communities "trails and tribulations."
I have been using Quark since 1990-91 and have mostly enjoyed its strengths. I certainly have had my share of frustrations and difficulties with the program, both in house and on a consulting basis with other design / print shops.
I upgraded my computer platform to a dual G-4 1.25ghz MacIntosh about 6 months ago mainly for video and DVD authoring capabilities. OSX 10.2.x was a stretch at first, but what a joy now.
The point here is, I have continued to run QuarkXPress 4.1 even having to use Classic Mode , certaily not wanting to upgrade until the program was OSX savy. OSX runs so well, it was frustrating to continue with the old app.
Two weeks ago (what timing!) I made the decision to purchase and start a possible change over to InDesign. The program seemed strong, imported PC Pagemaker 6.5 and 7.0 files seamlessly. Opened and translated any Quark document I had in the same positive manner ... Things were looking good. I simply couldn't wait any longer to continue with my Classic Quark.
I'm not sure which program will win out in the long run. My printer / service bureau is not experiencing any wonderful events with InDesign. They are having more problems than not. Quark is solid and strong in that environment.
I will be very cautious in doing anything big projects with InDesign before my printer has a better report. However in my particular environment, I still need to translate PC Pagemaker and Quark files from time to time. InDesign wins hands down as Pagemaker continues to die out.
The key to Quark is 3rd party extensions
I upgraded to 5 beacuse it was the cheapest path to 6...FREE! I haven't used 5 at all because I'm unwilling to invest in critical 3rd party extensions when I'll need to buy them aagin for 6. The functionality that is offered by Extensis QXTools and QX Effects is critical to the way I do business, eliminating the need to flip back and forth between Quark and Photoshop. I've asked Extensis what their plans are for 6 and got a very vague answer. The new Panther OS will eliminate the need for Suitcase, but Extensis (and others like Markztools) has been a godsend for Quark users. Having used Quark since version 1, I still believe Quark always ships half an app. To get everything you need you have to rely on 3rd party extensions.
Quark doesn't deserve customers
Quark's long-standing attitude toward its customers does not deserve continued business. Here are just two of my many stories:
1) I wanted to "upgrade" to a new version of XPress. But I had always owned Passport. (For those of you who don't know, that is the version of XPress that also handles foreign languages. A much more expensive program. By the way, those capabilities are included in the basic InDesign version.) They wouldn't "upgrade." They wanted me to buy a full version of XPress. That finally did it for me.
2) And here is the whole picture in a nutshell (in my opinion). I once called Quark and asked to speak to someone about the then-forthcoming new version. I asked that person: "Will it have hanging punctuation?" The reply I got was: "What is hanging punctuation?"
Funny you should mention that...
Ebrahimi has to be one of those who is getting nearly $90,000 in income tax relief this year. Yeah, he "invested" it. His tax refund alone will probably pay for the entire Indian programming staff for a year.
In Denver, it would have only paid for three technicians. Much better to support the Indian economy than the American economy.
Joke du jour: Have you heard that Quark supplied job retraining for all their laid off engineers? They lined them up outside HR, and while they waited for their exit interviews, they taught them how to say, "Do you want fries with that?"
Upgrades, no thanks!
Runs *only* on a G4. I'm really getting tired of this treadmill of hardware upgrades. My G3/400 works perfectly fast and Quark 4.1 suits me fine thank you. Between OS X hassles (printing, font management, performance issues) and now a $300 software upgade that will need a $1,500 hardware upgrade? No thanks! I'll be fine for another two years with OS 9 and QXP 4.1.
Nothing really new here
I agree with this article. There's nothing really new here, concerning the whole gamut of the way Quark (the company and the software) works. I think that 6 will be a heck of a release, considering that a majority of shops still use Quark, and want something familiar to upgrade with. InDesign is a fine program, I use it all the time, but it still not my first choice. If I need to bang something out, I fire up Quark. I've got 13 years of experience with it. The real Adobe cheerleaders out there can't wait until everybody "sees the light", but it will take time. If the market finds that it's a superior product, it will be adopted. It may take some time, and for businesses with a heavy investment in the Quark Publishing System it may never happen. But that's the reality of the free-market system. Besides, I think there needs to be a healthy competition between companies, it keeps them innovating and benefits us the end users.
I was robbed!
Quark lost me as a supporter/customer when they issued that worthless upgrade, version 5. The new features (tables and html conversion) were so badly implemented they are virtually useless. Coupled with the programs inability to create a decent PDF, I still feel I was robbed. Quark should give everyone who purchased version 5 a free upgrade. Of course I don't expect that to happen.
InDesign is better
I switched to InDesign just after taking a spin on their demo....(I have used Xpress since the start, never thought I would change -- guess I was wrong -- dont get me wrong Xpress is good but InDesign is better) -- I have put down programs like Illustrator, saying Freehand is better --- well I only said that because I had never tried Illustrator -- Now, I am a Illustrator user (Love it) -- Designers trust me there are a lot of hidden features in InDesign....that are awsome.
Xpress - only available in 10.2.x, high price and upgrade price, no thank you --- support you users dont gouge them.
Remember Goliath fell to David.
Cesar
The kiss and make up doesn't matter
Frankly, I no longer give a damn if Quark and Apple kiss and make up. I will not be buying any upgrades from Quark. They called me a couple years ago trying to get me to upgrade and I told them then what I will say now.
When Quark moved all of their programming and support to India, they lost me as a customer. I don't need an upgrade so bad that I will do anything to further support Farhad Ebrahimi's greed.
For years, he has proclaimed how wonderful America is. Why then did he move over 500 jobs to India, throwing the Americans who made him a wealthy man out of work? Why did he incorporate offshore so he could brag about evading American taxes?
When Tim Gill left Quark, the company lost its conscience, its soul, its ethics and its credibility. If you want to support Fred Ebrahimi's money-grubbing greedy anti-American arrogance, go ahead, buy QuarkXPress 6.0.
They may be shipping, but they're not selling
It's Tuesday morning at 7 am of the week that Quark Inc. spokespeople insisted that the product would be shipping.
They may be shipping little boxes all around the world, but no matter where I clicked on their Web site, they ain't selling.
If you follow their links to purchase Quark 6, you come to a page for Quark 5 orders. Yes, these Quark 5 orders have free upgrades to 6, but there ain't no "Buy Quark 6" area at all.
Whatever the real reason, Quark Inc. is a little behind the schedule they outlined last week.